[WSIS CS-Plenary] Considering Differences between Functiional Descriptions - and Definitions per se (re: almost final version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement)
dr.l.d.misek-falkoff
ldmf at att.net
Wed Dec 21 14:45:05 GMT 2005
Good morning:
I support Kicki Norstrom's post and position, and her superb leadership in this and other areas with outstanding ability to take both the long - and shorter range views as we must do here under deadline (appreciative of extension, as merited).
Indeed, we are working together along with others on the Disability Convention Health Article which she chiefly and superbly coordinates and I assist; and I believe both of our statements in Tunis at WSIS-2 are in accord, just to mention other settings, for emphasis..
I feel I need that plain prose prologue, to then ask if particular context, we might consider, expediently, an operational distinction of some things we are discussing, and ask some informational questions (not as debate or "a vote.")..
I see this very responsible stance of the International Disability Caucus regarding the International Disability Convention as a functional description, not a definition.
Indeed, we await decisions on definitional commitments one way or another in the human rights based 'Convention toward Treaty' , do we not (?) Further, but at a slant here, another time and perhaps even in January 2006 we might indeed discuss WHO (since it's mentioned here). How they define things and what they suggest functionally might be important for all of his here to consider.
So as the current version of the IDC proposals on Health are not overtly definitional (do we agree, perhaps not), I am thinking that I can still agree with Chris's idea that a definitional statement could be proposed in the present context, and as I have suggested earlier in stating variants could be considered, the word "Health" alone can signify the thematic commitment of this group. I hope this not a small point. And that if the concept was not accepted prior, it still might be. If the Health thematic Group so desires.
There is still, whether definition and function are both expressed or not, the possibility that those in Mental Health Fields would be able to identify with Health without elaboration - again, both definitionally or functionally - which overarching phrase is part of the phrase "Mental Health" - because I also agree with Elizabeth Carll that this may very well not occur automatically, though we here presently do think and feel "seamlessly.". And we certainly do not want to short-change experts or those who benefit from them in the field who are here and in the world.
However let me ask two questions, for clarification.
(1) Is it the case that a prepended definitional approach has indeed be attempted, as I recall, and was not favored? And are we estopped from trying again, iff (if and only if) we wish?
(2) And is it the case that the present submitted version, which Sylvia Caras has kindly and with precision pointed out does indeed have a mention of the "M" term, is it presently proposed that the one mention be removed?)
Thanking you for the discussion and best wishes to all, LDMF.
Individual Email from Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D..
Online communications systems ARPANet forward.
For Identification here: *Respectful Interfaces* Programme / Communications
Coordination Committee for the United Nations. ACM ABA. International
Disability Caucus for the Disability Convention (toward U.N. Treaty).
Founder: Persons With Pain International (PWPI) accredited to the Convention.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kicki Nordström
To: Zielinski, Christopher ; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com ; Hiroshi Kawamura ; plenary at wsis-cs.org ; bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de ; WSIS-CT ; WSIS CT-Drafting
Cc: Sylvia Caras ; Pwd at wsis-cs.org ; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:05 AM
Subject: SV: [wsishealth-and-ict] RE: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement
Dear Chris,
The disability movement has just denied this old WHO definition since it separate physical and mental health from each other. We have drafted text in the convention as follow:
States Parties recognise that "persons with disabilities" have the right to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health without discrimination "on the basis of disability". States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to ensure access "for persons with disabilities" to health services, including health-related rehabilitation. In particular, States Parties shall:
I have quoted what is disability specific, and you could delete this and then have the text which is proposed for this new Human Rights treaty.
Yours
Kicki
Kicki Nordström
World Blind Union
Immediate Past President
c/o SRF Iris AB
122 88 Enskede
Sweden
Tel: +46 (0)8 399 000
Fax: +46 (0)8 725 99 20
Cell: +46 (0)70 766 18 19
E-mail: kino at iris.se
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Från: Zielinski, Christopher [mailto:zielinskic at who.int]
Skickat: den 19 december 2005 20:05
Till: wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com; Kicki Nordström; Hiroshi Kawamura; plenary at wsis-cs.org; bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de; WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Kopia: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Ämne: RE: [wsishealth-and-ict] RE: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement
Why not just start the piece with the WHO Constitutution definition: "Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." Then you don't need to repeat or divide ...
Chris
zielinskic at who.int
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From: wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com on behalf of Elizabeth Carll, PhD
Sent: Sun 18/12/2005 20:27
To: Kicki Nordström; Hiroshi Kawamura; plenary at wsis-cs.org; bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de; WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Cc: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [wsishealth-and-ict] RE: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement
In further thinking about this, it is not clear as to what you believe would
happen if physical and mental health are included in the Statement, as
opposed to omitting it as you suggest? They were included in the CS
Declaration.
Physical and mental health are already viewed as disconnected. Having both
physical and mental health included will help insure that both are
recognized and not overlooked. Ignoring the lack of services for mental
health, because one wants it to be seen as seamless with (physical) health
will not encourage governments to spend $$$ and provide resources.
-----Original Message-----
From: ct-admin at wsis-cs.org [mailto:ct-admin at wsis-cs.org]On Behalf Of
Elizabeth Carll, PhD
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 2:59 PM
To: Kicki Nordström; Hiroshi Kawamura; plenary at wsis-cs.org;
bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de; WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Cc: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final
version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement
Dear Kicki,
I couldn't agree with you more that physical and mental health should not be
separated, which is why they are included in the health section.
Unfortunately governments are not so enlightened. According to the World
Health Organization and statements by Kofi Annan, approximately 40% of the
world’s countries have no articulated mental health policy, and over 30%
have no mental health programs.
If as you state nowadays everyone knows that physical and mental health are
tied together, there would not be such disparity in services for mental
health. Therefore, many countries do NOT know that physical and mental
health should be tied together and failing to point to the need for physical
and mental health will only perpetuate the problem.
But then, these points have discussed many times before.
Best regards,
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Carll
Health and ICT Working Group
International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies;
Communications Coordination Committee for the UN;
UN NGO Committee on Mental Health
New York, USA
Tel: 1631-754-2424
Fax: 1631-754-5032
ecarll at optonline.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Kicki Nordström [mailto:kino at iris.se]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 2:21 PM
To: Elizabeth Carll, PhD; Hiroshi Kawamura; plenary at wsis-cs.org;
bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de; WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Cc: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Subject: SV: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final
version 4.3 of WSIS CS statement
Dear Elisabeth,
You seems not to understand that this is not only a matter for 600 Million
persons with disabilities, it is a matter of language and what we want to
achieve with the text in the future! Old and out of fashion language and
meanings should not be used and everyone now adays know that physical and
mental well being is tied together and therefore should not be separated!
Yours
Kicki
Kicki Nordström
World Blind Union
Immediate Past President
c/o SRF Iris AB
122 88 Enskede
Sweden
Tel: +46 (0)8 399 000
Fax: +46 (0)8 725 99 20
Cell: +46 (0)70 766 18 19
E-mail: kino at iris.se
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: pwd-admin at wsis-cs.org [mailto:pwd-admin at wsis-cs.org] För Elizabeth
Carll, PhD
Skickat: den 18 december 2005 18:48
Till: Hiroshi Kawamura; plenary at wsis-cs.org; bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de;
WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Kopia: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; wsishealth-and-ict at yahoogroups.com
Ämne: [Pwd] RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of
WSIS CS statement
Prioritet: Hög
Dear Hiroshi,
The presence of those with disabilities is very important and certainly
laudable in view if the many obstacles to participation. I believe it is
very difficult for civil society to counter and influence governments due to
the lack of available and equitable resources, Many of us are not paid
staff, as I am a volunteer who has personally paid all expenses, including
to travel to Geneva and elsewhere as my NGO does not have funding ( and I am
not independently wealthy). However, I believe there are important issues
which must be addressed for the future of our society and that is what
motivates my continued participation, even though it is at considerable
personal expense. I believe many individuals contribute in many ways for
CS to have a voice.
Your raising awareness of the issues is understandable. At the same time,
it is important to recognize that lack of mental health information and
services can lead to disability, but that this is only one group of
consumers within the mental health community, which is much more broader
including those who are not disabled but are in need of services due to
violence, war, trauma, family dysfunction, coping with catastrophic
illnesses, such as AIDS. etc and the same distinction can be made for
physical health as well. Therefore, it would be inappropriate to have
policy and decisions driven by one subgroup within the context of physical
and mental health.
From a mental health perspective, there is language that would be preferable
in the disability paragraphs, however, respecting the right of self
determination of each group, including the disability caucus, was the reason
I did not advocate changing language in the disability contributions.
As far as delaying this another 18 hours and then concluding the text, I do
not see where that would make a difference as all of the issues appear to
have been discussed and rediscussed. In addition, if the CS Statement is
going to have some, hopefully, wide media coverage it must be sent out
quickly as it is getting very close to the holidays for many and this is not
the kind of information that is easily picked up nor seen as of interest at
that time. If there is to be a delay, I would then suggest sending a press
release out in January as part of new year events.
In addition, having commitments for the beginning of this week, I and others
may not be able to participate. and therefore, I would suggest to follow the
agreed upon deadline, as much has been discussed and rediscussed already,
and look forward to the finalization of the CS Statement.
Best regards,
Elizabeth
-----Original Message-----
From: Hiroshi Kawamura [mailto:hiroshikawamura at attglobal.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:41 AM
To: Elizabeth Carll, PhD; plenary at wsis-cs.org; bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de;
WSIS-CT; WSIS CT-Drafting
Cc: Sylvia Caras; Pwd at wsis-cs.org; Elizabeth K. Carll Ph.D.
Subject: Re: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of
WSIS CS statement
Dear Elizabeth:
Thank you very much for your detailed response.
My intention is to raise awareness on the fact that Sylvia is not the only
one who are concenred with separation of mental health from other health
issues in the context based on the observation of the discussions at the
Global Forum in Tunis. It is very important to listen to the voices
representing those who are with disabilities and reach consensus even if the
deadline set out is very close.
I would like to suggest to wait further input for at least 18 hours from now
on before concluding the final text.
Of course I don't want to exclude anyone to take part in the discussion on
the list, but at the same time I must point out the effort and contributions
of those persons with and without disabilities who gathered in Tunis at the
price of their all difficulties of travel and almost no connection to the
internet at their disposal during their stay in Tunis. There was almost no
opportunities of actively getting involved in the e-mail discussion during
the Tunis Summit for almost all Disability Caucus participants because of a
lot of difficulties on site. And once you are lost, it was not easy to catch
up the process of development of the CS Statement.
In addition, as you have observed through pwd list, the Disability Caucus
worked on the Tunis Declaration to be adopted on 18th. I suppose many of
other caucuses have concluded their WSIS participation with some substantial
documents or statements. That is the reason why I propose the editor of the
Statement to list those documents to include diversity of outcomes of WSIS
Civil Society so that they will supplement the Statement even if some of the
Caucuses could not take part in the process sufficiently.
I hope to see further discussions on those points.
Best
Hiroshi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Carll, PhD" <ecarll at optonline.net>
To: <plenary at wsis-cs.org>; <bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de>; "WSIS-CT"
<ct at wsis-cs.org>; "WSIS CT-Drafting" <ct-drafting at wsis-cs.org>
Cc: "Sylvia Caras" <sylvia at peoplewho.org>; <Pwd at wsis-cs.org>; "Elizabeth K.
Carll Ph.D." <ecarll at optonline.net>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:58 AM
Subject: RE: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of
WSIS CS statement
> Dear Hiroshi and All,
>
> Thank you for your input, as it is obvious that the Disability Caucus
> has given much thought to the WSIS documents as have others
>
> With regard to your request as to the issue of deleting physical and
> mental health and in essence deleting mental health, from the document
> now, seems surprising, as Sylvia had expressed her concerns all along,
> and these issues were posted on the plenary listserv and I do not
> recall a request for the removal of mental health from the document
> after the discussions by the Disability Caucus.
>
> In addition, while there may have been discussion to which those of us
> who were unable to attend the Tunis Summit are not privy, the process
> of finalizing the document cannot be based solely on decisions at the
> Summit, as obviously that would disenfranchise many who were not able
> to participate. Therefore if that were the case, to be fair and treat
> all equitably, it require the removal of all information by those who
> did not attend.
>
> Most importantly aside from the many previous issues and support
> discussed for the inclusion of mental health, including most recently
> comments by UNGA President Eliasson at the informal briefing with NGOs
> this past Friday and the White House report on aging, the inclusion of
> mental health is essential to prevent the disenfranchisement of a
> large group of the worlds' people as well as the elimination of
> services to all people affected by traumatic events.
>
> ***Following the logic of Sylvia Caras' argument for the removal of
> reference to mental health from the documents, I would request that
> the same be done with removing any reference to those who are disabled
> as health should be seen a s a seamless service and not carve out any
> particular population which will further contribute to the
> stigmatization of that group. Health services to the disabled are no
> different than other specialties such as cardiac, etc.
>
> The recognition of the importance of addressing mental health needs
> and labeling it using clear language which is tied directly to how
> governments decide on funding is essential. To my knowledge there is
> no funding for access to emotional and spiritual services by
> governments. Furthermore in many cultures spiritual is viewed as,
> and often translates into, religious terms which brings with it a
> whole host of problematic and political issues.
>
> In addition, the reference to physical and mental health was included
> in each of the health paragraphs in order that each can serve as a
> stand alone paragraph should one of the points be picked up by the
> media or other organizations and therefore prevent misinterpretation,
> when taken out of context.
>
> Having a separate section in the document for one group's (disability)
> interest at the expense of another group's (physical and mental
> health) interest, by now eliminating reference to that group at the
> 11th hour, is the opposite of inclusive society and undermines the
> previously agreed upon
> Geneva CS Declaration. Therefore, it is requested that if the language
> for physical and mental health is removed from the CS Statement, to be
> equitable the same be done with all language references to disability.
>
> Hopefully, this has helped further clarify the issues.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Dr. Elizabeth Carll
> Health and ICT Working Group
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plenary-admin at wsis-cs.org [mailto:plenary-admin at wsis-cs.org]On
> Behalf Of Hiroshi Kawamura
> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:59 AM
> To: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de; WSIS-CT; WSIS ng Cc:lvia Caras;
> plenary at wsis-cs.org; Pwd at wsis-cs.org
> Subject: [WSIS CS-Plenary] Re: [WSIS-CT] almost final version 4.3 of
> WSIS CS statement
> Importance: High
>
>
> [Please note that by using 'REPLY', your response goes to the entire list.
> Kindly use individual addresse
>
> s for responses intended for specific people]
>
> Click http://wsis.funredes.org/plenary/ to access automatic
> translation of this message!
> _______________________________________
>
> Dear Ralf and others:
>
> As I attached in the body of my posting to CS Plenary List on 19th
> November, the Disability Caucus adopted the Tunis Declaration.
> Since the Caucus held two major events on 15th and 18th November in
> Tunis, I am afraid that none of the Caucus members could effectively
> commit the process of CS Statement development.
> I really appreciate CS members who are working on this very difficult
> work to create a consensus and formulate a CS Statement.
>
> At the last stage of CS Declaration, I must admit that there is still
> a serious issues to be dealt with among those health professionals and
> disability caucus regarding the language being used in the "almost
> final version 4.3". As a matter of fact, the concern expressed by
> Sylvia Caras, was also expressed by her at the Global Forum on
> Disability in the Information Society in Tunis during the summit and
> she received no objections on her contributions. Of course there was
> no voting but I sense that there was positive understanding on her
statements in general.
>
> Quotation from the posting of Sylvia Caras on 15 December:
>
> I'd be pleased to see, if that pharse "physical and mental" were
> deleted, an explanation that "health includes biological, emotional,
> social, spiritual and vocational well-being" which seems to me would
> embrace all aspects of health and thus not reuqire carving out mental
> health.
>
> --end of quotation.
>
> As the CSB Focal Point on Disability, I must address the fact that
> there is a serious disagreement on the language used in the WSIS CS
> Statement clearly expressed by Sylvia as quoted above. Even though
> Elizabeth Carl reported that there were only one objection among the
> Caucus on Health and ICT, I have to point out that the feeling of the
> Global Forum in Tunis was in support of Sylvia and she addressed the
> concerns to the WSIS-CT list on behalf of all attendees of the Global
> Forum in Tunis.
>
> In addition, there was no disability specific active input to the CS
> Statement due to the fact that WSIS Disability Caucus was focusing on
> its own declaration which was adopted on 18th November based on all
> disability specific WSIS process since 2002, I would like to ask the
> editors of the CS Statement to refer to the Tunis Declaration as
> attached as one of the delarations and statements of CS that may be
> listed or attached to the CS Statement rather than inserting
> paragraphs or sentences at this stage.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Hiroshi Kawamura
> WSIS CSB Disability Focal Point
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ct mailing list
> Ct at wsis-cs.org
> http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/ct
> Civil Society Plenary: http://www.wsis-cs.org/
>
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